Proficient Speaker/Proficiency in English - WordReference ...

If you tell me you are proficient in English, it means to me your English is adequate for many purposes but less than fluent. When I hear " ... 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ProficientSpeaker/ProficiencyinEnglish Threadstarter yuna Startdate Jun17,2013 Y yuna Banned SouthKorea-Korean Hi! Iwanttoparaphrasethissentence:"I'mfluentinspeakingEnglish." (1)I'maproficientspeakerofEnglish. (2)IhaveproficiencyinEnglish. Ifirstcameupwith(1),andthenwentonto(2). Whatisthebetterone,ifbothmakesense?   G GMF1991 SeniorMember Cork,Ireland English(UK,Suffolk) Ithinkthatbothsoundfine,Ipersonallyprefer(1).   Y yuna Banned SouthKorea-Korean Thanks,GMF1991!   E Embonpoint SeniorMember Boston English--American First,considerwhatyouwanttosay.Fluentandproficientarenotexactlythesame.IfIreadonyourresuméthatthatyouarefluentinEnglish,Iunderstandittomeanthatyouspeakextremelywell,possiblyclosetonativelevel.YouhaveprobablyspentsometimelivinginanEnglish-speakingcountry. IfyoutellmeyouareproficientinEnglish,itmeanstomeyourEnglishisadequateformanypurposesbutlessthanfluent.WhenIhear"proficient"IamnotsureifyouhavelivedinanEnglishspeakingcountry.Itispossibleyouhavesimplystudiedhard. Ofyourtwochoices,Istronglyprefer#1.However,themostnaturalwaytosaythisformeis"I'mproficientinEnglish."   velisarius SeniorMember Greece BritishEnglish(Sussex) Embonpoint'sadviceisgood.Ifyourexpertiseismainlyinthespokenlanguageandthisiswhatyouwanttostress,youshouldsay"IspeakEnglishfluently". "IhaveproficiencyinEnglish"soundsverylike"IhaveaCertificateofProficiencyinEnglish",sincetheCambridgeCPEisoftenlooselyreferredtoas"Proficiency".   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese Thebest-casescenarioisforEnglishlearnerstobe/becomebothproficientandfluentinEnglish,isn'tit? Doesitsoundnaturaltosaythat?Thankyou   2PieRad SeniorMember Toronto,mostly CanadianEnglish Well,itwouldbesomewhatredundant,wouldn'tit?Ifyou'refluent,thenyoushouldbeproficientaswell.   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese Erebos12345said: Well,itwouldbesomewhatredundant,wouldn'tit?Ifyou'refluent,thenyoushouldbeproficientaswell. Clicktoexpand... Thankyousomuchforyouranswer,Erebos (FYI:IntheESL/EFLworld,therearealwayspeoplewhospeakEnglishfluentlybutwithmanymistakes...   2PieRad SeniorMember Toronto,mostly CanadianEnglish Forsure.Buthowyoudefinefluentisawholeotherdebate.Whatmostcanagreeonisthatproficientisnotasfluentasfluent.Soforme,amorerealisticgoalforalearneristobecomeproficient.   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese Erebos12345said: Forsure.Buthowyoudefinefluentisawholeotherdebate.Whatmostcanagreeonisthatproficientisnotasfluentasfluent.Soforme,amorerealisticgoalforalearneristobecomeproficient. Clicktoexpand... Thanksamillionforyourfurtherexplanation,Erebos Here'saquestion."Soforme,amorerealisticgoalforalearneristobecomeproficient." Whynotfluent,giventhat"proficientisnotasfluentasfluent"?Thankyou   2PieRad SeniorMember Toronto,mostly CanadianEnglish Becauseit'slessrealistic.Fluencyisanidealgoal,butthefactofthematteristhatfewerlearnerswilleverachievefluencyinanotherlanguage.However,manywillclaimtohavefluencywheninfacttheyarenotfluentbyotherpeople'sstandards.Again,thisreallydependsonhowonedefinesfluentandI'mreallyjustbasingthisonmyowngaugeoffluency.   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese Erebos12345said: Becauseit'slessrealistic.Fluencyisanidealgoal,butthefactofthematteristhatfewerlearnerswilleverachievefluencyinanotherlanguage.However,manywillclaimtohavefluencywheninfacttheyarenotfluentbyotherpeople'sstandards.Again,thisreallydependsonhowonedefinesfluentandI'mreallyjustbasingthisonmyowngaugeoffluency. Clicktoexpand... That'sveryclear,thankyouforyourexcellentexplanation,Erebos   velisarius SeniorMember Greece BritishEnglish(Sussex) Inmyexperience,manylearnersbecomefluentinspeakingaforeignlanguage.Ifsomeonespeaksitwithoutmuchmorehesitationthananativespeaker,makesfewerrors,andcanexpressthemselvesandeasilybeunderstoodbyothers,Iwouldsaythattheyarefluentspeakers.Theymayhavequiteaheavyforeignaccentandstillbefluent. Idon'tthinkthespeakerneedstoachieveperfectiontobeconsideredfluent.Iagreethatveryfewlearnersachievetheleveloffluencythatabilingualspeakerhas.   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese velisariussaid: Inmyexperience,manylearnersbecomefluentinspeakingaforeignlanguage.Ifsomeonespeaksitwithoutmuchmorehesitationthananativespeaker,makesfewerrors,andcanexpressthemselvesandeasilybeunderstoodbyothers,Iwouldsaythattheyarefluentspeakers.Theymayhavequiteaheavyforeignaccentandstillbefluent. Idon'tthinkthespeakerneedstoachieveperfectiontobeconsideredfluent.Iagreethatveryfewlearnersachievetheleveloffluencythatabilingualspeakerhas. Clicktoexpand... That'sanotherprofoundinsightandIreallyappreciateit,Velisarius Weallwishtobecomefluentandaccent-freeinEnglisheventhoughveryfewofuscanactuallyachievetheleveloffluencybyotherpeople'sstandards.Onethingiscertainthough:beingproficientalonenolongersufficesforourlearningneeds   L londoncalling SeniorMember Salerno,Italy UKEnglish Erebos12345said: Becauseit'slessrealistic.Fluencyisanidealgoal,butthefactofthematteristhatfewerlearnerswilleverachievefluencyinanotherlanguage.However,manywillclaimtohavefluencywheninfacttheyarenotfluentbyotherpeople'sstandards.Again,thisreallydependsonhowonedefinesfluentandI'mreallyjustbasingthisonmyowngaugeoffluency. Clicktoexpand... I'mfluentinItalian(I'mbilingual,Italiansveryoftendon'trealiseItalianisnotmydominantlanguage),notsimplyproficient.Idon'tunderstandwhyyousayfluencyis'lessrealistic'.Manypeoplehavelearnttospeakanotherlanguagefluently.   2PieRad SeniorMember Toronto,mostly CanadianEnglish Well,asIsaid,fluentismorefluentthanjustproficient.Soitwouldfollowthatmorelearnerswillachieveproficiencyandlesswillachievefluency,makingtheformeramorerealistic,moreeasilyachievablegoal,woulditnot?Icertainlydidn'tsayunrealisticandthatitwasn'tpossibletolearntospeakanotherlanguagefluently,mindyou.   L londoncalling SeniorMember Salerno,Italy UKEnglish Iseewhatyoumean.Thatsaid,severalmembersofthisforumarenotnativespeakersbuttheyarequitedefinitelyfluentinEnglish.Nevergiveup.   R reno33 Banned English-USA Withrespectto"employment"issues,it'simportanttorememberthatanemployermaywantnotjusta"speaker"ofaforeignlanguage,butalsoonewhocanreadandwriteintheforeigntongue-thereareplentyof"fluent"speakersoflanguagesthatcan'treadorwritethem.Onajobapplication,forexample,itiswisetoputdownsomethinglike:Georgian-speak,readandwriteclosetonativelevel. (Mostemployers,ofcourse,unlesstheyhavealinguisticbackground,willhavenoideawhatyoumeanifyouusewordslike"all4languageskills"andsoforth.)   velisarius SeniorMember Greece BritishEnglish(Sussex) reno33said: thereareplentyof"fluent"speakersoflanguagesthatcan'treadorwritethem Clicktoexpand... "Fluent"appliesparticularlytothespokenlanguage.Illiteratepeoplearecompletelyfluentintheirnativelanguage.   L londoncalling SeniorMember Salerno,Italy UKEnglish reno33said: Withrespectto"employment"issues,it'simportanttorememberthatanemployermaywantnotjusta"speaker"ofaforeignlanguage,butalsoonewhocanreadandwriteintheforeigntongue-thereareplentyof"fluent"speakersoflanguagesthatcan'treadorwritethem.Onajobapplication,forexample,itiswisetoputdownsomethinglike:Georgian-speak,readandwriteclosetonativelevel. Clicktoexpand... Iftheysaythey'refluentandcan'treadorwritethelanguagethey'retellinglies,quitesimply.OnaCVpeopleusuallywrite'proficient',whichmeanstheyreaditandwriteitwellbutnotasanativespeakercan. Obviously,'fluent'meanssomethingelsewhenyou'retalkingabouttheirnativelanguage:somenativespeakersare'fluent'butnoteducatedandread/writetheirownlanguagebadly.   P PureLand SeniorMember Chinese Thankyouallforsuchameaningfulandinsightfuldiscussionabout"fluency"and"proficiency"   Youmustloginorregistertoreplyhere. Share: Facebook Twitter Reddit WhatsApp Email Share Link Forums EnglishOnly EnglishOnly Top