Nephew. : languagehat.com

“Nephew pronounced with /f/ has today clearly overtaken the older /v/ pronunciation, leaving it behind with only 21%. … An overwhelming majority ... languagehat.comNephew. May23,2015bylanguagehat90CommentsItoccurredtometowonderwhythewordnephew,whichcomesfromFrenchneveu,iswrittenwith–ph-,soIlookeditupintheOED,which(thoughtheentrywasupdatedinSeptember2003)isuncharacteristicallyunhelpful—afterlistingoverahundredvariantspellings(includingneveaw,newowe,neuo,nephwoy,andnevvey)givesthefollowingetymology: Serbo-Croat>Hungarian>German>EnglishinsteadofItalian>Occitan>French>English.BothareultimatelyTrade24>Cherguelen>Triskweline(SjandraKeiunits). Sarah says January5,2019at1:42am Wow,I’mreallysurprisedthathussaris/həˈzɑːɹ/!Ifirstlearnedofthehorsemenfromhistoricalfictionnovels,soIjustspelling-pronunciationeditto/ˈhʌsəɹ/.AmIthatunusualfordoingthis?Howmanyuncorrectedpeoplelikememustexistforittocountasarealpronunciationfromadescriptiviststandpoint?😛 Also,WiktionaryclaimsthepathwasHungariantoFrenchtoEnglish,andthattheformertwolanguagespronouncethemiddlefricativeunvoiced.YouguysaretheexpertssoI’llbelieveyouoverWiktionary,butcanyoupointmetoasourcefortheetymologyfromGerman(and/oraddittotheWiktionarypage)?Thankyou! DavidMarjanović says January5,2019at9:52am TheNORTH-FORCEmergeriscompletelyabsentfromthelatestDrWhoseries,Ijustfoundout.Themaincharacterslackitinanycase.🙂 andthenonthehussarsidetobeingalightHungarianhorseman,doubtlessnotoriousforplundering. That/k/wasborrowedas/h/beforeabackvowelindicatesasuitablyoldloan,AFAIK. Howmanyuncorrectedpeoplelikememustexistforittocountasarealpronunciationfromadescriptiviststandpoint????? Averygoodquestion. languagehat says January5,2019at9:58am AmIthatunusualfordoingthis? Notatall;mostAmericanswhoknowthewordprobablydothesamething. Howmanyuncorrectedpeoplelikememustexistforittocountasarealpronunciationfromadescriptiviststandpoint? AsDavidM.says,averygoodquestion.Lexicographersmusthavediscussedit,butI’mnotawareofanyclearanswers.Isuspectmakingsuchdecisionsismoreofanartthanascience. JanuaryFirst-of-May says January5,2019at11:34am That/k/wasborrowedas/h/beforeabackvowelindicatesasuitablyoldloan,AFAIK. Well,theSerbo-Croatissupposedtohave/g/… TheRussianformisгусар,with/g/,forwhatit’sworth,butthatdoesn’treallyproveanything–IIRC,Russianгwas/ɦ/orthereaboutsuntil(historically)recently,andevenEnglish/h/endedupborrowedasг(asin,say,Гарри“Harry”). doubtlessnotoriousforplundering Агусарамикорсарам Отдаюпочтизадаром… (fromtheWhiteKnight’spoemintheYakhnintranslationofThroughtheLooking-Glass) juha says January5,2019at12:23pm That/k/wasborrowedas/h/beforeabackvowelindicatesasuitablyoldloan,AFAIK. Itseemsso.kalabecomeshal,kotaház,butkivistayskő.However,puubecomesfaandpääskyfecske. marie-lucie says January5,2019at2:31pm Sarah:ThisisWiktionary:BorrowedfromFrenchhussard,fromHungarianhuszár(“cavalryman”),fromSerbo-Croatiangusar(“highwayman,brigand”),fromByzantineGreekχωσάριος,χονσάριος(khōsários,khonsários)orfromItaliancorsaro(“corsair”),fromMedievalLatincursārius(“pirate”),fromLatirtncursus(“running”),fromcurrō(“run”).Doubletofcorsair. IcannotgobeyondtheFrench-Hungarianconnection,butthatconnectionseemstobewell-attested.AtonetimeFrenchcavalrymusteitherhaveincludedHungarianmercenariesorhiredHungarianstotrainFrenchunits,membersofwhichwerethenknownashussards. Thefinal-dintheFrenchwordisnotetymological,itmusthavebeenaddedtothespelledformbyanalogywithotherwordsendingin-ard(soundedas‘ar’)suchasbâtard,richard,andanumberofotherwordsofmostlyGermanicorigin,wherethesuffixis(atleastinFrench)stillproductivewithasomewhatderogatorymeaning(asinmodernchauffard‘dangerousdriver’,asopposedtochauffeur‘driver’).Asanadjective,hussardhasafeminineformwhichIhaveonlyencounteredinthephrase‘alahussarde’,literally‘inthehussar(way)’referringtoaggressivesexualbehaviour. JPystynen says January10,2019at9:42am That/k/wasborrowedas/h/beforeabackvowelindicatesasuitablyoldloan No,tooold:*k>*q>†xwasneverproductiveinEurope.SlavicloansinHungarianallowka-,ko-,ku-justfine,andevensomeoftheIranianandBulgaricloansfromthesteppeperioddo(e.g.kard‘sword’,komló‘hop’). juha says January10,2019at9:59am Whatabouthús‘meat’?ThecurrentFarsiformisgosht. languagehat says January10,2019at10:30am HúsisofunknownetymologyaccordingtotheetymologicaldictionaryIconsultedbackwhenIwasstudyingHungarian. JPystynen says January10,2019at11:42am Whatabouthús‘meat’? Thatwouldbetheothersideofthe‘someof’.(Or,perhaps,eastIranian/ɣ/beingsubstitutedaspre-Hungarian*x?) JohnCowan says January6,2020at10:44am Frenchhussardprobablyaccountsforthe-ss-inthespelling,butit’simpossibleasadirectetymonoftheEnglishword,whichwouldhavebeen/ˈhʊzərd/ifadoptedearlier(likebastard),or/(h)uˈsar/ifadoptedlater.TheactualpronunciationcanonlybeexplainedbytheGermanetymonHusar. DavidMarjanović says January6,2020at8:21pm …whichhasfinalstressbecauseofthelongHungarianvowel. 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